tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post3995347299438195210..comments2024-03-10T13:59:19.230-04:00Comments on xpostfactoid: Inchoate moral intuition is not "hypocrisy"Andrew Sprunghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17601269968798865106noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-91254953097607899012011-05-13T16:26:14.492-04:002011-05-13T16:26:14.492-04:00there is another point: there are very few (if any...there is another point: there are very few (if any) spillovers in grade distribution. In incomes, however, the effects of the efforts of third parties influence (positively or negatively) on one's income in ways he can 't control or measure. My income is not only defined by market factors, but also by the access t public goods, third parties' productivity etcDiogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658205475010647354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-44011085678862045122011-05-05T10:15:26.028-04:002011-05-05T10:15:26.028-04:00Actually, I believe the comaprison to be reasonabl...Actually, I believe the comaprison to be reasonably on point. <br /><br />Both are "results" based upon effort to meet someone elses expectations. Grades are a measure of pleasing one's teachers, earned income is a measure of how well one has pleased one's employer/customer/client. Different professions get rewarded at different scale, but then different schools are also harder or easier to get good grades in.<br /><br />The only part of taxable income that doesn't match up is investment income from inherited wealth...students don't usually get much of a boost from their parents grades. Unless we are talking about genetic predisposition to intelligence and character, or any benefit based upon the selection of the educational system, e.g. prep school, university, or social conditioning and expectations. Hmmm? So maybe it isn't that far off either.<br /><br />I suspect most objections to this comparison are based on rejecting the premise solely in order to reject the realization that one might be holding inconsistent views of the two redistribution schemes.ruralcounselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09193188081686431709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-37343769851963333642011-05-05T09:14:02.673-04:002011-05-05T09:14:02.673-04:00Anon: see update - link at bottom of this post.Anon: see update - link at bottom of this post.Andrew Sprunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17601269968798865106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-38938988944061482492011-05-05T09:09:09.793-04:002011-05-05T09:09:09.793-04:00I agree that it is unfair to judge the students (o...I agree that it is unfair to judge the students (or anyone) on what they could think up in an hour. Especially for an issue which people do not ordinarily think about.<br /><br />But, now that you have had about a week to think about Hanson's proposal, perhaps you could update your position?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-21503706962709554942011-05-04T10:51:51.322-04:002011-05-04T10:51:51.322-04:00Hey, great point, Panglott.Hey, great point, Panglott.Andrew Sprunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17601269968798865106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-50016289757728103362011-05-04T10:46:38.621-04:002011-05-04T10:46:38.621-04:00Thanks for taking up this cause. GPA/income are su...Thanks for taking up this cause. GPA/income are such wildly different things for different purposes that most people are startled by the idea of treating the same. That's surprise, not hypocrisy. <br /><br />Actually, I don't see why we wouldn't expect high-performing students to tutor lower-performing students. And isn't that basically redistribution, whatever the mechanism?Panglotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811340779409286134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-13338918199560863792011-05-03T23:56:51.212-04:002011-05-03T23:56:51.212-04:00Thank you! When Andrew Sullivan posted that video...Thank you! When Andrew Sullivan posted that video (and comment...) I thought, "Oy, these two things are so not the same on so many levels." Thanks for articulating some of the many ways!ayghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04630184483289941569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-47501935586376151312011-05-03T22:53:22.511-04:002011-05-03T22:53:22.511-04:00It's also entirely possible for every single s...It's also entirely possible for every single student in a course, class year, or school, to get a 4.0. Anne's A does not make Dan's A any less possible. There's no limit on the total resource supply of grades, except when a curve is applied (and in school these days, curves are far rarer than they're believed to be). Money is finite. Wealth consolidates, and it does so geometrically. Earning one A in a class doesn't help you get an A in the next one. Having 100 A's doesn't make the next A more likely. Money makes money. GPA and Money aren't in any way metaphors for each other.<br /><br />That said, if I had a 3.999999, and I could help 9,999 poor people earn college degrees by taking a 3.990000, and giving them each .0000001 to bring each of their 1.999999's to 2.0's, I'd do it. If someone really wants to map this absurd GPA notion onto the world of money, that's basically the math at stake. <br /><br />The student who gives up their 4.0 for a 3.0, 2.5, or 2.0 loses a lot, which is another reason this whole grade redistribution scenario is so disingenuous. The gazillionaire who is taxed the EXTREME socialist rate of 38.5% under Obama (as opposed to the oh-so-much-lower-and-not-at-all-socialist 35% under Bush....THAT is the difference being contested, really, and inspiring these wingish chain emails, which in turn inspired these JV youtubers) would experience no such loss.<br /><br />Thanks for getting this dissection going, Andrew.THnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-72889717301732828162011-05-03T21:24:25.915-04:002011-05-03T21:24:25.915-04:00The idea of treating GPA like wealth is so absurd ...The idea of treating GPA like wealth is so absurd and fallacious that it is hard for people to get their heads around it. GPA is a straightforward application of arithmetic to a set of grades. Grades themselves are invented to describe individual aptitudes. You can't redistribute them without robbing them of meaning. Johnny's aptitude for math can't be redistributed to Billy. To redistribute grades would be to alienate the grade from the individual it purports to describe. That's just destruction of information.<br /><br />Wealth can be redistributed. Give ten of Johnny's dollars to Billy and send Billy to the corner store, and Billy can actually get himself a bag of goods. The shopkeeper won't indignantly withhold the goods from Billy because the dollars came from Johnny. The dollars will be fine with the shopkeeper, and he'll give the goods to the kid who forks over the money.<br /><br />You can't get away with doing that with grades. The prospective employer who knows Billy has a redistributed GPA will ignore that GPA. It doesn't do him any good if Billy has a B in math if it turns out he can't really crunch numbers. <br /><br />I hope that's articulate enough, and I agree with you, the intuitive understanding that you can't redistribute GPA is not invalidated by an inability to explain it well. I wouldn't even call it "moral intuition". It's a logical intuition about what even makes sense to try.PlentyOfReasonhttp://twitter.com/#!/PlentyOfReasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8512362.post-24551389606223881752011-05-03T21:12:30.094-04:002011-05-03T21:12:30.094-04:00If income and GPA were related, all the extra hour...If income and GPA were related, all the extra hours and responsibilities I've taken on with my job would have led to me making more money. Sadly, that hasn't happened in almost 3 years.ckhttp://google.comnoreply@blogger.com